興建迪士尼主題公園新聞簡報會的答問全文

行政長官曾蔭權於六月二十五日在中環政府合署會見新聞界的談話全文

以下為今日（星期二）在香港禮賓府舉行有關興建迪士尼主題公園新聞簡報會上的答問內容：

記者：政府說有五成七的股權，但當中又提及附屬股權，究竟那五成七的股權是否已包括附屬股權在內呢？如果已包括在內，所佔的數量有多少？可否清楚說明究竟附屬股權是怎麼一回事？剛才盧維思提及那個投票權是按照股權的比例，是否政府在董事會中的投票權是較迪士尼公司為大，可否說清楚是否已包括附屬股權及具體情況？

庫務局局長俞宗怡：剛才盧維思先生介紹政府的股權百分之五十七是不計附屬股權在內的。附屬股權就是我們要求將來這間發展公司給予我們四十億附屬股份，每一個股份等於一元，用以代替支付給我們重整土地的費用，估計我們重整大約一百二十六公頃的土地所需費用約為四十億港元。我們要求這合資公司，即政府與華特迪士尼合資的這間公司，發四十億附屬股份給政府，這附屬股份就是待整個迪士尼樂園的運作達到超過某一個水平的時候，這些附屬股份便會逐步逐步變為正常股份，當它變為正常股份後，這些股份是會有權和其他所有的股份一起分紅。

政府投票權會根據公司成立時，就是政府會有百分之五十七的股份，華特迪士尼公司有百分之四十三的股份，投票權就是政府變成一個擁有大多數股權的股東。剛才盧維思先生的介紹我亦聽得很清楚，亦都已向各位介紹了，將來的董事局一共會有十一個人，五個是代表政府股份，四個代表華特迪士尼，另有兩個是獨立人士，是由政府與華特迪士尼一同委任入董事局的。所以這個對我們政府來說是非常重要的，因我們亦估計到在建築期間，政府可以說是需要一個相當大的監管這項目的建築、運作成本。

Reporter: I have two questions. The first one is: how is it that Disney brings only less 10 per cent of the total cost of the project?

Walt Disney Attractions Chairman, Mr Judson Green: Walt Disney Company has agreed to invest in Hong Kong Disneyland because we believe in the project. We think this is a unique opportunity to increase tourism, enhance tourism in Hong Kong Disneyland, and because of our confidence in its success, we're investing cash equity. That is not something that we always do or typically do, but we did agree in this case because we believe in the success of the project.

Reporter: I'm sorry. It wasn't my question. My question is: that you bring less than 10 per cent of the total cost which seems to be very low. How is it that the Government has accepted such a deal?

Commissioner for Tourism, Mr Mike Rowse: I think you're grouping together two different sets of numbers. In terms of land formation, reclamation and infrastructure, this is an expenditure that the Government would have had to spend anyway irrespective of what we did in Penny's Bay on Lantau Island. If we were going to use that land for anything else for recreation and tourism, we would have had to spend that money in order to make it useful land. Focusing purely on the theme park itself, the percentages are as we have given them to you, 57 per cent and 43 per cent. That represents the cash equity. The loan, which you have grouped in there as expenditure, is not expenditure. It is a loan. It will be repaid with interest in full, every last dollar. It is quite wrong to regard that as expenditure although we will need the approval of the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council in order to advance that loan to the joint venture company.

Finally, even of the $13.6 billion in infrastructure, we will be getting subordinated shares for that proportion which relates to the cost of reclaiming the land for the Phase 1 theme park. That means, if the performance of Hong Kong Disneyland is better than the present business plans expect, all of those four billion shares will convert into ordinary shares. On that basis, the Hong Kong SAR Government would own 73 per cent of the company and Disney's share would only be 27 per cent of the enlarged capital upon full conversion of all the shares. So I think you've got to look at the different numbers. It's very simplistic to say it's 90 per cent share for the government. That's quite wrong. A big chunk of that number is money that would have been spent anyway, and another big chunk of the money is a loan which would be repaid.

Reporter: Disneyland in Paris has had a lot of troubles in the first years. Can you remind us what were the reasons of these troubles first, and can you explain to us how you have addressed these issues in the current project.

Walt Disney Attractions Chairman: Well, I might say that some of the difficulties in the early years of Disneyland Paris were actually similar to what we experienced in the early years of Disneyland, Walt Disney World and Tokyo Disneyland. These are very major projects that are very complex. I am happy to say that Disneyland Paris, however, now has become the number one tourist attraction in France and is operating very, very well. We have brought to bear on this particular project, Hong Kong Disneyland, the benefit of our experience, not just of Disneyland Paris, but of all four destinations and 50 years of experience. And so we are learning from all of those experiences and trying to place those learnings into the planning for Hong Kong Disneyland.

To be specific, I think one of the things that we have focused on in particular has been the appropriate sizing of Hong Kong Disneyland. This is not -- one difference among all the other Disneyland-type parks around the world, is that instead of beginning with an assumption of a park that's going to do ... of 10 million in attendance, we, I think, have very appropriately and conservatively targetted the attendance in the five million range and have planned for, with the Government, the ability to add attractions in a capacity in the years ahead based on its performance such that it can grow to 10 million or more, or perhaps we could even at some point with the Government consider future development. I think that is a significant difference in that we have tried to size very carefully this part and this project, both the park and the hotels, so that we can be successful from the very beginning.

記者: 今次介紹沒有提及收益方面，究竟政府與迪士尼如何分帳？迪士尼除因股份得到分紅後，還有一些專利費用，在這方面如何分配？

Commissioner for Tourism: I think both parties get money out of the project in different ways. So looking first at Disney - because that was the main thrust of your question - yes, they participate in the project in a number of respects.

As licensor of the intellectual property, they will get royalties, in exactly the same way as they do in Paris and Tokyo, of five per cent or 10 per cent of the revenues in exactly the same way as they do elsewhere. So the royalties are standard around the world.

Secondly, the management company, which will be a 100 per cent Disney subsidiary, will also earn a management fee. Again, the management charges for that are standard. I'm sure Judson will tell you that they are at the low end of the spectrum, following the negotiations. But there is a management fee as well.

Finally, Disney and the Government are shareholders in the project. In our capacities as shareholders, our share of the dividends is exactly the same as our shareholding. That is to say, when the company is able to pay cash dividends, we will get 57 per cent of them and Disney will get 43 per cent of them. So there is no question of the Government shares being worth less or some different kinds of number. Looking at it from the Government's point of view, of course, as a shareholder we are in exactly the same position as Disney. As a lender, we will get back interest on the loan at a very satisfactory rate and, of course, get back the whole of our original capital that we advanced to the company.

And finally, as the Government and as a community, we will enjoy the wider economic benefits that accrue to the economy as a whole off site. So both parties will benefit as shareholders, but both parties also benefit in other ways.

記者: 我想追問大家，剛才董先生說過最終這計劃會退回給私人經營，而政府是不會參與的，該時間表是怎麼樣？同時，還有其他的私人發展商可以參與呢？中間該個－－譬如政府的發言權是否作為一個股東的參與，以及一直聽聞他們要求有一個獨家的經營權，將來香港還可否興建其他的主題公園？

署理財政司司長許仕仁: 先回答你最後的問題，在專營權上，雙方來說都是沒有的，即是non-exclusive的。關於你第一個問題，我想原則上，從長遠來說，當然政府是不會排除把我們自己的股權私有化，這個基本的原則當然有，但在短期來說，現在我們當務之急是要把這個計劃盡量開始發展，而在這個階段的時候，政府直接的參與是非常重要，所以形成我們在這個階段，並無一個特別的時間表說在何時一定要把一定的股權私有化，但在協議內亦說得很清楚，就是香港政府的股權可以在迪士尼樂園開始後的一年後，one year from now, yes, after opening, yes－－開始之後的一年內，已經可以進行私有化，亦沒有說限定政府達到某一個階段，便要拿回一些股票，全部亦可以私有化，現時我們沒有一個具體的時間表，協議上的確是有這樣的條款，迪士尼方面，或許稍後Mr Green可以補充，但是他們亦可以把股權轉讓，但是不可以少於十九億，十九億以下便不行了，形成他們要拿回一些，不知道Mr Green有沒有補充？

Walt Disney Attractions Chairman: I would confirm that although we can sell some shares at the same time as the Government after the first year of opening, we are committed to ... shareholder in Hong Kong Disneyland.

署理財政司司長: 我想我沒有甚麼特別需要補充，即不是說一定是發展商，或甚麼商喜歡參與也好，都有一個這樣的機會，但在現時這個階段來說，政府的直接參與及現時的股權是會維持不變。

Reporter: From the International Herald Tribune. Is the 25 per cent rate of return anticipated contingent on the full 10 million people visiting ...sort of a good scenario Mr Green mentioned, or does the 25 per cent return happen if you don't do the full built-out? And also, could you confirm whether any private sector developers were any time here in negotiations with Disney, please?

Government Economist, Mr Tang Kwong-yiu: Perhaps I answer the first part of the question. Twenty-five per cent return is the economic rate of return. It is, of course, linked to the attendance profile. The attendance profile for the base case is that at opening, the total attendance will be around five million people. And then, at the full capacity, that is, the Phase one built-out, the attendance will build up to around 10 million people. So, corresponding to that attendance profile, yes, the 25 per cent is related to that.

Commissioner for Tourism: What I can tell you from a government's perspective is that there've only ever been two people at the negotiating table, that is, the Hong Kong SAR Government and the Walt Disney Company of the USA. We have not been holding discussions about whom we might sell our shares off to. I am sure that Disney who would answer for themselves in a minute has been having discussions with potential strategic partners from the point of view of marketing the park and tying up very commercial arrangements and so on, but on a very preliminary basis. And I'm not sure how much they would say about that today. But in terms of the investment, there have only been two people at the table.

Walt Disney Attractions Chairman: And I confirm that in the many months that we've been here working on the negotiations, we have met many companies and many organisations because we want to understand everything we could about Hong Kong and the future of Hong Kong Disneyland. But we have no agreement with any company at the present time. The only negotiations we have are with the Government, and I think it was previously described at some point in the future, the Government and Disney together will have an appropriate discussion about the possibility of other investors joining in. But all of our focus has been and will be for the near future on making sure that we launch projects successfully and getting off to a good start.

Reporter: From Francis Moriarty of RTHK. I'm still a little unclear on exactly what the lifetime is of this whole project. What's the payback period for the loans? ... Why are all the timetable things so vague?

Secretary for the Treasury, Miss Denise Yue: The payback period of the loan is 25 years and it will fetch an interest rate, a reasonable interest rate, so it's not a soft loan in any sense. Insofar as the life of the project is concerned, the land would be granted to this joint venture company owned by Government and Walt Disney for 50 years for Phase one, with an option of renewal for another 50 years. When doing the economic benefit analysis, I believe our Government Economist has used a period of 40 years, 40 years after the opening of the Disney park to arrive at the set of figures which Mike just showed on the screen. I hope I have answered the question.

Government Economist: In the economic assessment, we used for illustration purposes 40 years as the time span. We do also carry out sensitivity test as to a shorter period, say 30 years or even 20 years. Obviously, the project of this nature will have a time span which is much longer than 20 years. But even so, for shorter periods of 20 years or 30 years, our assessment is that the economic benefit will still be quite substantial.

Commissioner for Tourism: And finally the answer to, maybe underlying Francis' question, is nothing sinister. There will be a lot of facts and figures on the table tomorrow. It's being duplicated in my office now and translated, and that's being printed as well. So when we go to LegCo tomorrow, there will be more facts on the table.

Reporter: I have a question for Judson Green from Disney. Why do you choose Hong Kong as the place for building another Disney park in Asia? Have you earlier talked with other countries, other cities, other places?

Walt Disney Attractions Chairman : We chose Hong Kong for a variety of reasons and I articulated some of them in my comments. We have obviously been shown interest from numerous countries around the world. We have always wanted to expand our international base beyond our first two destinations in Japan and France. And when you look at the criteria of Hong Kong, it is already very well-known and established for its tourism, although we believe jointly we can enhance its future tourism potential, yet, most importantly, it has invested appropriately and in an visionary fashion with respect to its airport and its infrastructure, and we are very drawn to the people of Hong Kong and the fact that we think a Disney theme park would be a very successful operation in Hong Kong. The fact of the matter is the world's travel and tourism will be growing quite significantly in the decades ahead. It clearly will be a major engine of growth for the world and those destinations that are well-placed, strategically located, and thinking about and taking the necessary actions will be the ones that will be successful. And we saw all of those criteria in Hong Kong and that's why we selected Hong Kong.

We have from time to time had discussions with other countries and we'll continue to do that, but our immediate focus is on launching Hong Kong Disneyland.

記者: 政府與迪士尼傾談的時候，有否一個共識，就在未來十至十五年內，在東南亞不會再興建一個新的迪士尼主題公園？另外一個問題就是：你們說在四十年內，會為香港帶來一千四百多億的經濟收益，我想詢問－－我想看看可否給予一個小一些的數字，因為四十年的年期很遠，可否給予的是在迪士尼啟用後的五年內，其實每一年對經濟的收益及增長是怎麼樣？

Walt Disney Attractions Chairman : I think when we look at all of the past destinations in the world, we felt Hong Kong was the right one for us to concentrate on next. I don't know when we will have another destination, nor where it will be. We obviously believe that China is the world's largest market. It has enormous potential and someday there could be a second theme park in China, clearly. So I don't have any timetable for you. I don't have any specifics, but we obviously believe that our Disney theme parks which are the most successful in the world, are loved by the people of the world. There is clearly affinity for the Disney franchise throughout the world and throughout the Asia-Pacific region. And I think we would continue to look at our opportunities in the future but once again the underscore - we are most excited about Hong Kong because of its unique opportunities and that's really our immediate focus.

政府經濟顧問: 關於經濟效益的數字，按年計就在開幕那年，經濟效益是六十二億元，在第二十年會增加至一百二十一億元，亦可以有一個顯示，剛才有個問題說如果不是四十年，而是短些，淨經濟效益如果不是一千四百八十億，應該是一個甚麼數字。可以向各位提供，如果以二十年來計算，即是說二十年後的數字不計算，首二十年的時候，該個淨經濟效益是八百六十億的，如果是以三十年來計算，該個淨經濟效益就是一千二百三十億，四十年就是我們剛才說過的數字，一千四百八十億。

記者: 我想詢問，既然迪士尼公司亦不排除在其他地方，包括中國興建另一個的主題公園，究竟政府在計算經濟效益的時候，究竟有沒有計算這方面的影響？如果計算了這方面的影響，譬如在十年內會在中國上海多建一個迪士尼公園，對於你們整套帳目的影響會是怎樣？以及剛才你們提供有關入場人數的數字，在opening的時候，已經有一百八十萬的香港人會前往迪士尼，即平均可能三至四個人中，便會有一個人前往迪士尼，這些數字的估計有沒有任何的一些理據去支持，例如以往海洋公園的入場人數，或者迪士尼在其他地方的入場人數，可否說清楚一些？

政府經濟顧問: 其實在迪士尼公園的入場人數，我們會留意到在亞洲區內，即是東南亞地區內，該個旅遊市場是區域性的，就不是只是香港，亦不是說將會只得香港的一個主題公園，換句話說，就是我們入場數字的預測，其實已經計算了可能以後會面對整個區內整體旅遊設施的發展，以及甚至鄰近地區，包括香港本身，未來我們亦有一些其他的旅遊及設施項目是會擴建的，好像海洋公園。整體入場人數的增長已經計算這些因素，其實我們是用這個增長率比較近十年來實際的增長率，是保守許多的，換句話說，我們這預測是特別傾向一個比較保守及穩實的一個增長率。

Commissioner for Tourism: To add to the first part, which is in fact a question again about exclusivity. If you look at Orlando in Florida, the Disneyland is like the anchor tenant. And surrounding Orlando in Florida are a large number of other theme parks as well that have come there afterwards. So if we were to factor in the possibility of other Disney theme parks around the rest of the region, we should also factor in the benefits to Hong Kong's economy of the attraction of additional tourist attractions and investors that will come here because Disney is coming here. So there are pluses and minuses on both sides. I think one point has been stressed by both sides is that our focus for the next few years is quite definitely going to be on getting the Hong Kong Disneyland up and running and making it successful. And that's a very important message you need to take away. As regards whether we have had reference to Ocean Park and the penetration rate of that amount, yes, we have. And the assumptions that we are making in respect of Hong Kong Disneyland are actually quite conservative compared to the penetration rate of the Ocean Park has had in the past, both among local residents and among foreign visitors.

記者: ．．．．爭取過在迪士尼方面，即是爭取要求迪士尼公司在一段時間內不在附近的城市開設另外一個的迪士尼，政府在談判中，有沒有爭取過這個條款？同時，其實實際上，可否向我們說究竟何時政府會開始收到分紅，即是實際你們的預測，政府何時會開始取到金錢？

Commissioner for Tourism: The answer to your question on exclusivity is: it is entirely reciprocal and there are no restrictions on either side. Hong Kong is the home of free competition and we are not scared of competition. We think we have a better product than everyone else. And that's why Disney is coming here because they think so too. Okay ? There are no restrictions either way on exclusivity.

Chief Secretary for Administration, Mrs Anson Chan: Before I draw this presentation to a close, I want to comment on one aspect on which there appears to be no questions, but nevertheless it does appear to be a point of concern to the community at large and so I like to comment. And that is on the whole question of the need to import labour, can I make it quite clear that at this point in time, we do not see the need to import labour. As you know our entire policy on employment is to give preference to the employment of local workers. We have an established supplementary labour scheme where in the event that the local labour force is unable to meet the demand, then there is an established mechanism to consider importing labour. But I do stress at this point in time we do not see the need to import labour.